# Chicago Tribune, 1871-12-03, page 4 -- Session of Saturday 2 Dec. 1871: Charles G. Wicker, Isaac L. Milliken, Sergeant Louis J. Lull, Mathias Benner, Lorens Walter, John Schank, Fire Marshal Robert A. Williams
# Source: Library of Congress, Chronicling America, lccn sn82014064; page URL https://www.loc.gov/resource/sn82014064/1871-12-03/ed-1/?sp=4
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# STATUS: newspaper report of the testimony, mostly in reported speech with some direct quotation -- NOT the stenographic transcript.

THE GREAT FIRE.
Continuation of the Investigation by the
Board of Police.
Examination of ftre Marshal Williams and
His Three Assistants.
The Police and Fire Commissioners resumed
their investigation yesterday morning. Tho first
witness was Sergeant Charles French, who gave
a general statement of his* experience on the oc
casion, without throwing any more light upon tbo
subject. Thomas Ockolby, night Superintendent
of the South Side Gas Works, was called. Ho saw
a largo brand fall upon tho tar house, and fire
immediately broke out on the South Side. The
flames spread rapidly, and so fearful was he of
the destruction of tho Eas Works that he opened
the valves to send the supply to tho North Side.
He opened* them himself. A fire engine
was playing on* the corner, and he went to tho
pipemen and asked them to play on the works*
but they refused to do so. They allowed him .to
use tho lead of hose himself. His testimony was
essentially that of Messrs Peter and Thomas
Burtis, given a day or two ago.
CHARLES G. WICKER
thought the blowing up of buildings was abso
lutely necessary. Tho fire could uot have boou
checked without blowing them up. Ho believed
it was owing to the efforts made there by the
Mayor,* Commissioner Sheridan, and those who
were with him on Harrison street, that the lire
was checked at that point. Michigan Terraco
could have been saved with another engine.
ISAAC L. MILLIKEN,
cx-Polico Justice, said tho depot of the Rock Is
land Railroad was full of passenger cars, which
might all have been saved if there had been any
railroad men there. There were no switch en
gines there at all, nor railroad employes.
SERGEANT LOUIS J. LULL
was called and testified, but his testimony con
tained nothing now. Tho fire was finally checked
on Hamsonand Congress streets, between U and
12 o’clock on Monday.
Tho board then took a recess till 2 o’clock.
Tho board again got to work in the afternoon al
2:40 oftlock.
MATTBENNER
then made bis statement. He Is Third Assistant
Fire Marshal. There were many of the engine
companies which worked on the Saturday night
flro for eighteen hours. Ho told the Economy's
foreman to go to the north of DeKovcu street
and left one stream in the rear. He went to the
Little Giant's stream, and found it east of Mrs.
O’Leary’s cottage. In passing to the bam he
was compelled to tear down a fence. From this
Solnt for a long time the statement was super
uously tedious, dry, uninteresting, and irrele
vant. Mr. Moore wanted him to go away from
where he was stationed, but he thought it better
to stay. When ho thought the fire was
chocked on the corner of Fornuor and Cana
streets, ho learned that another had broken out
on the south side of Forqucr street, west of
Canal, at the back of Pat Mcßride’s. He went
into the house and found all the furniture re
moved the bed tick emptied ou the floor, and the
straw and hay set alight. He determined to save
that building. As soon as ho could move the en
gine with safety ho did so, and ordered MoLoan
to put a plug stream on the hydrant that the en
gine had left. Ho crossed the river by Twelfth
street bridge, and found a large frame building
on the corner of Harrison and Clark streets
on lire. It was a Jewish synagogue.
Ho found it was lath and plaster
and it was impossible to put the lire out. Mr.
Carter Harrison got an axe for him, but ho saw
it was useless, and told the foreman of the T. B.
Brown to remove his stream and wet the sur
rounding buildings. Ho met Schank, and said he
was going east. Ho went down to Congress
street, and. on coming back, found the Brown
still at work on Fourth avenue, near Harrison
street. His statement thereafter contained
nothing other than what has already been pub
lished. Tho Long John was the only engine sent
to tho South Side. The foreman had been ex
cused, to look after bis sister. A judicious in
quiry as to what money he received elicited tho
following facts; Mr. Ryerson. foreman, paid
money to some parties. Ho paid Benner
(tho witness) *300: he made “presents”
to the Little Giant, Wabansia.J. B. Rico, Jake
Rebm and Sherman, tho foreman (John McLean)
and two foreign companies. Ho gave two com
panies S3OO apiece— the Giant and wabansia. The
rest received 5200 apiece. There was no under
standing for any special services to bo rendered.
Ho could not understand this generosity on the
part of Messrs. Ryerson A Co., except that they
were -aved from being burnt out. He did not
think this generosity had anything to do with tho
retention of South Side apparatus on the West
Biac. The foreman of the lumber yard said “Matt,
you look after us, won’t you!” and Benner said
“all right.” Ho saved Ryerson’s yard from being
burned. None of tholr lumber was destroyed.
Ho did not know of any city engines forcing
water from the West Bide on the South Side coal
yards. He could not state how long the Waban
siu remained on the West Side. It might have
been until Wednesday; he could not tell when the
Long John went back to the South Division. Ho
did not see an order signed by Commissioner
Sheridan, directing four engines to go down to
tho |loko shore and pump water into the city
water mains. It was an uncommon thing
to receive anything for extinguish
ing Arcs. Only once he had
received money, and that was $3, for doing his
duty. Ho supposed tho foremen divided the
money among their men, but didn’t ask anything
about it. The only money he heard of being
offered was by a man owning a building on the
southeast corner of Jefferson and DcKoven
streets, who was offering #2OO to any man who
would save his building. He believed several
parties contributed to tho $2,100 distributed by
Sir. Ryerson’a foreman, among them the dock
companies. This witness occupied one hour and
a half, his remarks being brought to a close at 4:10
o’clock.
LORENS WALTER,
Second Assistant, went down at the second alarm.
The Water Works had a composition roof. His
hopes wore that the wind would die away. Ho
concluded at 4:30.
JOHN SCHANK,
First Assistant, was allowed half an hour to tes
tify. His statement has already been published
in Thb Tribune. Ho considered it his duty to
move tho Bock Island cars. It was Ms duty to
send for engines, and did so, but they didn't come
around, and he didn’t know what else to do. Tho
buildings on Sherman street, from Taylor street
north, wore on fire. A pile of lumber
opposite the Michigan Avenue Hotel, caught fire
and threatened tho building. One engine at tho
foot of Taylor street would have saved some
buildings. The blowing up of buildings on Har
rison street did good. An offer was made to tho
Brown’s men, at the corner of Harrison and State
streets, by Mr. Mendel, of #SOO, If they would save
his building. They didn’t save it. Ho didn’t re
member that Williams told him “togo to h—l,”
as Sweeny stated. His testimony was brought
to a close at 5:02.
ROBERT A. WILLIAMS,
Chief Fire Marshaled not know anything of the
origin of the lire. Ho did not go down until tlio
second alarm. He did not go to bed till 7 o'clock
on Sunday morning. He crossed Randolph street
bridge, and went down Desplalncs street. hen
ho cot to Harrison he found ho had gone tho
wrong way, and had to drive to Hoisted street,
thence to Taylor. Two houses, two barns, and a
lot of little outhouses were on tiro. There was a
regular nest of fire there. Ho encouraged the
boys, saying, “Hang on to her, she’s gainingon
us.” Tho Illinois being short of men he helped the
boys with their pipe. It was hot. He ran to
the oast side and saw the America hose. Tho
buildings were smoking and ready to light. Dor
sey was then sent tQtum in a second alarm.
Before they could get tho water on the building
it was tut off. He found tho foreman of the Wa
bonsia had dono it. Before it was on again tho
whole centre of the block, between Taylorand
Forqucr streets, was on fire in about a minute
and a half. Four streams were on Ewing street,
and ho thought it was all stopped, when tho
church got allre. That was three blocks away.
Tho wind was blowing so hard ho know he could
not throw a stream there. Accordingly ho
gave orders to have the longest ladder up.
Sweeny came up and asked him what to do. Ail
the near plugs were occupied, and ho had not
hose enough to take any other. He told Sweeny
to do his best. Tho ladder No. 1 was broken in
half and lying on tho ground. The smoke was
very dense. Sweeny said ho could get on tho
flat roof of a house and play on tho church. Tho
steeple dropped right down Into tho church.
There was a drug store on tho corner of Clinton
which took flro several times. Ho went down to
Batcham’s mill. Tho yard was full of sharings,
and the tiro fell thicker than any snow
flakes. and the mills caught soon after
ward. On hearing of tho fire on* the
South Side he went over by Madison street bridge
and began working north of the Gas Works. His
statement differed in no way from that published
in The Thibcne, or the testimony of Mr. Hildreth
and others, (except in length.) When the Water
Works burned ho gave up all hopes, and meeting
the Long John boys who told mm their engine
was burnt, ho set them to work to savo his piano
and carpet, and his $46 stove until It was too hot
to stay. He was on tho corner of Lake and Mar
ket streets, when some one told him the flro
would cross to tho North Bide. He
sent tho engines to the North Side.
Tho Northwestern Railroad people asked him
to savo their depot. Wliilo working there ho saw
a great blue mass rolling down on them, which ho
subsequently found out to be chemicals from the
telegraph battery. Ho could have saved tho
depot if the water had not given out. He was
satisfied that, if the Water Works had not been
destroyed, the fire could hare been checked on
the South Side. Ho did not know what kind of a
roof the Water Works had, or what facili
ties there were there for extinguishing fire.
Mr. Cregier’s assistant told him that they
had some hose there but no pump.
The water was obtained from an adjoining plug,
but the pressure from a plug was only absut
twenty pounds. But for the destruction of tho
Water Works tho fire never would have gone
west of Wells street. Cisterns in the streets
would have been of great value. They had often
been recommended, bo, also, would fire hydrants
connected with the river. Ho had recommended
a floating fire engine, when he was made chief.
The board had asked an appropriation of $2,000
for a floating engine, capable of throwing a
dozen streams, with a regular house.
Ho had seen the river frozen up so that asteamer
could not move about three months, but oven
then tho steamer could he located where the
most dangerous fires were likely to occur. Ho
did not think the fire apparatus was aufliciently
large to protect the city. He believed they had
homi very successful in extinguishing fires. Cin
cinnati had 21 engines ho believed. Some of their
engines were more powerful than those hero, hat
bethought smaller and lighter engines wore more
serviceable. If a fire had the start of one, they
had to work hard. Tho success of the Fire
Department In this wooden city was attributable
entirely to their promptitude and alacrity. A
number of companies were tired oat with their
exertions on tho previous night. Ho went round
to several houses on Sunday, and found the men
sober Many of them looked pretty hard. Their
eves were bleared. Some people might think they
were tipsy, hut ho didn’t. Some may have been
taking a drink. They wore not in very good con
dition for work. He saw a num
ber of citizens around tho fire who
were tight, but bo didn't like to turn citizens
out because they got down on a company who
would do that. Ho saw several citizens with
flro hats on, who were tipsy, and so the im
pression got abroad tliat the firemen were in
toxicated. The firemen found their hats hot
sometimes and laid them aside. He did not op-
prove of that conduct. He had ho recollection
of seeing Schank at the flre on the West Side.
The witness concluded at G;23
The board then adjourned till Monday morning
at 10 o’clock.